I thought I am done with Sajha for few moths. However, when I read his Majesty├втВмтДвs car got stoned in BBC news as a top story of the day, I couldn├втВмтДвt stop myself from dropping few words. What a shame and what a best example of uncivilization to the world!
Instead of discouraging such misbehavior, so called leaders will label it as the people├втВмтДвs sentiment. What a shameful culture! What a shameful politics! And what a shameless poeple!
Maoists have taught us very wild culture. Kill them! Beat them! Hit them! Wipe them out! Eradicate them! These are Enemies! ..... These are the words Nepali society has learnt from these Maoists. I have always recognized their most of the political demands and agendas; however, I have never supported their principle ├втВм┬ж. Their self-righteousness cruelty and extremism have always been a repulsive force for me.
Today country is divided, who taught this? Maoists! To make their so called peoples war they divided people by caste, culture, region and ethnicity. A tiny little country got divided into numerous pieces by the name of aweakening people. Now we all have witnessed how chaotic the country is being.
There are better way to do right things. If your radio is not working, fix it properly; don├втВмтДвt hit it. Once it had worked by hitting doesn├втВмтДвt mean that hitting is the right way of fixing.
What type of culture we are getting from these cruel people? What type of civilization we are learning? By the name of revolution these people introduced a culture of anger. A good quality is recognized by every culture, every society and everybody. ├втВм┬жit is human to recognize good and bad. Tell me any civilized society which recognizes anger over forgiveness? Any society which promotes anger is uncivilized, premitive society.
The poor king, who is left with nothing, is an object of compassion. He has done mistake but people are exaggerating his mistake. Few decades later when unbiased History will be written, I bet Prachanda will not remain hero.
King killed 21 people and lost everything; Maoist killed thousands and got everything. Girija killed thousands and became hero of the country. Krishna Sitaula killed more than 21 and refusing to resign. It is too old logic to say king killed to impose autocracy where as Prachand are Girija killed for Democracy. Prachanda and Girija had had killed each others people. If you are saying Prachanda were right, Girija must be wrong and he must be punished. If you are saying Girija was right, Prachand must be wrong and he must be punished. If you blame on king for their kilsl, you must be jocking.
Don├втВмтДвt blame only to Royal regime for our backwardness. Royal regime is responsible but we are equally responsible too. We have tradition to blame others. Do you know what type of culture we have? What to talk about other things we need foreign aid to dump our waste! We are not good ourselves how silly is it to expect our leaders to be good? Afterall we all share the same culture including leaders and the king.
We have very bad tradition, which I usually call The George W Bush tradition :
Either you with us or with our Enemy
People doesn't quantized like this. Human world is not a digital world where only 0 or 1 sates exist.
Nepali politics is a quantized politics; either congress or UML; either Royalist or non-royalist. Since I recognize good points of all and I condemn bad points of all, I belongs to no where. I am kind of alien who give mixed message.
When Congress was in Power, UML came to the street, you could hardly see any congress supporters protesting against congress government no matter how valid demands UML had. Same is true for when UML was in Power. .... This is our world.
Despite huge difference here are the common things between Prachanda/Baburam and me. This doesn't make me Maoists.
1. We all are against the caste system.
2. We all are against the thousands of years old rigid unscientific tradition.
3. We all are against the rigid religious practices...
4. We all support revolution but we have different definitions of revolution.
5. We all support equal participation of all Nepali in Government, bureaucracy and Army.
and there could be more...
1. I was against/I am against and I will always against of their violence revolution.
2. I will never ever support single party communism which is their final goal, no matter what.
3. I will always condemn them for imposing aggression in young minds.
4. I don't believe their idea of eradicating enemies, instead I believe on changing bad people to good.
5. If I can not think as they think, it doesn't mean that I am wrong. I don't like their arrogance nature.
6. I don't believe on dividing our tiny country into small pieces. I want to see integrated Nepal.
7. I don't like their aggressiveness.
and there could be more......
I support good agenda of Maoists. Don't confuse.... I am not a Maoist.
I believe, king got more punishment than he deserve.. this doesn't make me royalist.
I love and respect good royalists........ I equally love and respect good non royalists.
I condemn bad royalists ... I equally condemn bad non royalists.
I don't know what will happen tomorrow. Depends on how well Maoists will do with people. People are angry against the king. King Mahendra had already cut the main root of Shah Dynasty. King Gyanendra has no evidence to prove that his move was not the same as his father's. More than that Prince Parash's unpopularity counts. To support someone you have to have love for the person. This royal family couldn't earned the love. Politically Madheshi will not vote for the king, if they vote, they will vote for Hinduhood. Most of the people who will vote for Kingdom will not vote on Royal honor but against the Maoist aggression or in name of Hinduism.
In conclusion: I will have no problem with Republic Nepal and Will have no problem with Kingdom either, provided I want united Nepal.
If you think this as a mixed message...... No problem.... I will recognize good points of all and condemn bad points of all. ... I can not be either this or that... I am sorry!
Vishontarji ..these so called republicans Nepali don't know what the hell they are pushing country into!!! Bad to worse is not solution...Solution SAVE DEMOCRACY!!!! if it means space for all then there should be space.Do not corner Monarchist ..they will react.Maoist as of now are the enemy of DEMOCRACY.Their idealogy is not even closer to democracy.At least, King wants democracy if he wants to exist.
Clearly ,Nepali public and Netas do not really think !!!Just whim...Think and Think and Think Again.Does punishing King brings peace and happiness and at the same time , can you call yourself Fair?????????If not all pro-republicians you are whimsical ..just like a Nepalese Maoist monkeys.
One small thing,, just one small thing..clearing garbage of KTM , they are not capable of resolving ..what can you expect out of these Hyenas???
Hehehe. I knew both agreement and disagreements are equally powerful to bond two people. Only indifference does not do that.
Regarding our arguments, I never doubt about your compassion for any wounded PERSON. But this time around you were showing a compassion not to a wounded PERSON but to a wounded IDEOLOGY. Check the title of the thread. I just thought I need to point that out.
I am sure I will be reading a lot from you in future. So I will remind you if and when I felt you mixing up objectivity and subjectivity.
And your bonus question, what is science, brought me memory of my high school science teacher (he was a brilliant Madhesi teacher, by the way). Although our science textbook of any grade did not have definition of science for us to need to learn, the teacher taught us the definition- it was a very long sentence. And because it was in Nepali language, I gather he learned it from Hindi textbook.
Okay, I am not bringing the whole definition here because that is not necessary to make the point I was trying to make when I objected the term's liberal use.
So, for my point's sake, I'd say, what remains after satisfying all skepticism is science.
My point was you can not present somebody's teachings as science when so many skepticism remain unsatisfied. That was all I was saying.
Thank you once again for your inspiring civility, humility and enthusiasm.
ImI ji, I respect your thoughts. There are many people in Nepal who think as you think. They believe, King will protect Nepal from communist. I don't like communism either, but I don't believe that King is an alternative of communism.
If Prachanda ever tried to push Nepal for communist Republic, it will be a great disaster for country, him and his party. I believe he will not do this mistake. He has learned so many thing from the 12 years long bloody war. I believe he is not the same person who has started war 12 years ago. He has already noticed the world is not around 1950's anymore.
He can not say he has left his final goal of communist republic because he is morally bounded. People will ask him why did he kill 13000 people for communist republic? He has no answer of this question if he declares right now that he left his final goal. Plus his main followers are the people of that class who believe communism would benefit them. He had made promises with these people and there is no way he can break them. What is he right now is because of these people and he can't go back to street again. All he can do is to fool them, fake them.
No one dare to make Nepal as a communist state until India wants. I have already seen Prachanda/Baburam are loyal to Inida, as loyal as Girija or any other leaders of Nepal. After all they spent 8 years in India out of 10 years of underground life. No leaders can go against India and they shouldn't. They have to be smart enough to tackle with India. Every country make their foreign policy for the welfare of their own people not for the welfare of neighboring people. Leaders are responsible only for their own people not for the people of the neighboring country.There are very few leaders who think morally and they made a great leaders. I don't think there are many such leaders in Indian and Nepal. Nepali leaders should understand this. Moreover, in this century, only idiot will try to practice communism. Anybody who will try will take country backward, there is no doubt. Despite my ideological difference with Prachand and Baburam, I have no doubt that they care about the country. They want to see country prosperous and developed. I have no doubt about that. Not only Baburam and Prachand, all leaders of the country including King want to see country Prosperous and developed. I have no doubt about it. However, it is not easy to do so.......
Despite my ideological difference, i don't believe, Baburam and Prachand will ever try to kill Multi party democracy. If they ever try, that will be the cause of their self destruction, thousands of more Nepali brothers and sisters will die and we will sink in an infinite deep well of disaster. I believe, ideology makes people blind, but I think they are wise enough to realize this simple truth.
Maoists and Nepali people are lucky that king took the power. Thousands of other people would have died by now and the useless war would have lingered many more years. Maoists would have never got victory. Maoists leaders are aware of this fact.
I respect the way you think and I respect the way Nepe Dai think. You can see from your point of view and Nepe Dai sees from his. Both of you have to recognize a simple fact that diversity is the law of Nature. You see danger from Maoists and safety from King where as Nepe Dai see danger from king and safety from Maoists. And both of you don't pretend to be so but really believe. ...learn to respect each other's feeling....learn to respect diversity.
Those who believe in Maoists claim that they are sons of people and will always see the welfare of people. However, those who believe in King claim that Maoists are destructive in nature and they will destroy everything.
I always follow middle path. I don't see king as negative as Maoists and people like Nepe dai see and I don't see Maoists as negative as royalist and people like you see.
I am in a total surprise and a little bit disappointed too to see that you are making a quite inaccurate and funny assumption about my view regarding the Maoists.
>Nepe Dai see danger from king and safety from Maoists.
I do not see "safety" from any political party. Until very recently (just before Jana Andolan II), I was hoping and wishing for a new political force (eventually to give rise to a new republican democratic party-- with new faces as well as clean and progressive leaders STOLEN from all political parties !).
I was hoping the initial razzle-dazzle of pro-republic civil society might be what I was dreaming. I can bring you a ton of my writings (from Sajha, from NDF and my personal communication with some of civil society people) to show you how desperate I was to convince everybody that a new political party is a need of the day and how it can be done.
Anyway, this turned out to be futile and I guess I accepted it as a reality.
This was just to give you some idea about how I was looking for a better alternative to the Maoists.
Now back to "safety" thing, to me, the safety [net] of our nation, particularly after witnessing in Jana Andola II people's fearless willingness to fight for their right, is the ordinary people of Nepal and nobody else.
It is my recently strengthened faith in the credible power of the common people of Nepal and their credible willingness to use that power when necessary that makes me see the Maoists much less "dangerous" than I used to think once.
That's when I consider the Maoists singly. If Maoists are to be compared with other political forces/parties as regard to "danger" to democracy, my view might surprise you, well until you understand it fully.
Among three forces, the palace, SPA and the Maoists, I think the one that poses the biggest threat to democracy (practice of democracy, that is) comes from SPA (particularly NC) !
Before you (or anybody reading this post) jump, please note carefully that I am talking about the democracy as practiced. I am not talking about democracy in paper.
Then-- this is very important-- I am talking about REAL threat, not THEORETICAL threat.
With these two important limitation in place, I now can explain how "democratic" parties instead of the palace or the Maoists possesses the biggest threat to future democracy of Nepal.
Let's start with considering the "threat" ability of these three forces:
Palace: Almost dead. There is no significant REAL threat from it to democracy.
The common portrayal of the palace as a threat is nothing but an economic way to keep it suppressed. That's all.
So, now we have two parties left. Now, let's consider their chances to malpractice/deviate from democracy.
The Maoists: Everybody is watching them. A slightest deviation from their agreed commitment will be noted. NC/SPA: Their democratic credential is granted. They are unsuspected, unwatched and are, therefore, more likely to malpractice democracy.
As a matter of fact, not only from simple logical/statistical point of view, but also from their unchanged behaviors and the absence of any sign of willingness to change their past behavior (unaccountability, lack of internal democracy and so on), there is a very good chance that they might disappoint the common people once again like before.
Do you know what will that (hopefully not, but if ever happened) do ?
It will eradicate people's faith in democracy completely and there is only one direction to go after that- anarchy, dictatorship and invasion.
So, this is how the unchanged (and unwilling to change) NC/SPA is the un-noticed (un-noticeable) biggest REAL threat to democracy.
How we remove that ?
How else ? By reforming these parties to make them more accountable and internally democratic.
And how do we that ?
By preaching ?
No way.
By devising legislative and legal system to enforce that.
When an ordinary cadre of NC can drag Koirala to a court of law for violating the party statute or an ordinary citizen can sue a political party for breaking the law or the promise, consider them changed/reformed.
That's what we need. I think it should be one of major agendas for our Constituent Assembly. Unfortunately, nobody is talking about it yet (everybody is busy stoning the King and lashing the Maoists !). However, I am hopeful they will.
If I am ever to run for CA, these will be among agenda I will promote.
Bandhu haru ! ramailo lago mathi ka lekh rachana haru padh da. Ma pani na maobadi, na khaobadi, na girija na makune na musa na birala haru ko sangat. Ma sadharan nepali nagarik. Tapai haru ko mathi ko rachana padh da euta koora chai banna man laago. koora ke bhane USA jaha thulo democracy cha bhaninchha tyahaa pani republican le nai jiteko cha, japan jaha ko aarthik pragati bhani rahanu naparla tyaha pani republican kai sarkar cha. Mero bhannu ko matlab yo hoina ki republican nai aauu parcha bhanne. Tara belayat ma Royal family exist bahi ra cha bane imaandari purwak exist bhai ra ko cha naki Nepal ko ROYALIST jasto je pani aafai bhayi dine, raaj niti dekhi, hotel, disco dekhi "kaalo padaartha" samma. Pahila ta hamro janamaansh ma imandarita chaina, jo aafu sangai imandarita chaina ushle aru bata aash garnu bekaar huncha ra aru lai laanchana lagauna pani bekar huncha. Chahe tyo fohor kai koora hosh ya jaagir khane kai. Haami aagai naramra ra nachaihine kaam garde bhanera kasailai bhanchau bhane, ushle naramro kaam garo bhane haamile karaune thau nai hudaina. haami jatha bhavi fohor gardai hidne ani arka le fohor uthayena bahenera gaali garne ! Haamro samaj lai naitik sichhya ko jaruri cha.
Arko koora ke bhane haamro samaaj kasto bhane, euta katha ko udhaharan diu yaha haru lai(katha maile lekheko chai haina hai, kasai ko savar gareko hu): koonai kishaan khet maa kaam gari raheko thiyo, tyo kishan bado dukhi, looga pani chyatiyeko, tyo dekhera bhagwaan le yeshka poorana luga liyera naya looga dinu paro bhanne manasaay le kishan cheu gayera, Kishan ma timi lai naya looga dinchu tara badla ma timi le malai timi le lagayeko poorano looga dinu parcha bhanechan. Yo sunera kishan akamakka parecha, purano looga pani ushlai dina man naparerko ani naya ko pani chaahana bhayeko, yastai asamanjash ma kisan le tyo poorano looga dinna bhnecha. Hamro samaaj tehi kisan jasto cha. Naya ko pani chahaana garne ani purano pani falna nachahaane. Aafu bhalo ta jagat bhalo bhano baso ! jo aaye pani imandar neta aaye hunthyo.
ee euta samjhana aayo hinduism ko, Hindu rastra Nepal ! raajdhani jasto thau ma tyo pani Pasupatinath ti cheu mai bahko thau ma tyo Thamel ma diusai yar gai ko masu bechna dinu chai ali kati saram nai lagnu parne ho . Bideshi ko laagi bhadai ma ati gardinu ta bhayena ni. Malai ta testai lagcha. ki kaso?
Here is a news from home that calls for Sajha to be declared a National Park for an endangered species.
It seems the monarchist species is now extinct from the parliament. Forget about the invader population of the Maoists. The non-Maoist parties are now the most vocal republicans. Now all parties are in unison demanding the declaration of the republic right now without waiting for the Constituent Assembly !
The last stock of the Monarchists, RPP/Janashakti have mutated to republican species.
VISHONTAR, All the points you put seemed reasonable But I don├втВмтДвt think even you follow all those points You do everything totally opposite than the stated points.
Nepali peoples thinking are not reasonable.....
They are DOUBAL STANDARED people....
Even though they live in democratic or anywhere around the world....
Nepali Guys.... Nepali and living out side Nepal you sleep with tons of gals and do all the stuff you are not suppose to do And later on you go to Nepal to get married you look for virgin.. right cast..with money.....right religion.............
This is just a simple example of double standard ......Nepali
like you said those are prachanda and baburams points
well i think you should go look at it yourself if they are following those point.................
I think they don├втВмтДвt even follow that point at all..................they just states it in there so called vasan to the people so that they will get more support from people with lower cast who are already frustrated instead if helping poor hungry and frustrated people they are taking advantage of them they are using them unconditionally
prachanda baburam and you VISHONTAR need to change anything..........................time changes everything.... prachanda baburam talk big and turns around and kills innocent people..................... you talk big do nothing..................................cuz you enjoy your life in America eating burger if anything happens in Nepal you are the first one to say its not a good situation in Nepal I cant go there right now If you feel so strongly about it you should go join the movement instead if hiding├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж├втВм┬ж.
As i said you are sentimental and spritual person.We do not need sentiment we need nepalese with bit rational.Do i think we need Monarchy because King is going to save Nepal. I don't think so King is not in the state to save anybody.
Just SPA can and they are bunch of irrational ,whimsical ,cheap popularity seekers, visionless bunch of corrupt bastards.
I believe in right method and proper process.In democratic country , if we do need to remove king then we can but we need to ask people.As i said and Maoist have said million times that they do not believe in democracy .What am i .Should i think like SPA and think maoist are joking???was that the joke more than 15k nepalese died? is it a joke that Nepal is the poorest country in the world?
I don't think so .Maoist are not joking.Why i do not believe in Nepalese Maoist.Though some of the points they brought up are nice.Their ultimate intention is bad.
So, SPA should follow proper democratic ways and let people decide and Stop becoming god of nepalese ,We all know how corrupt these people are .
IT IS NOT THE GOAL WHICH DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN FREEDOM FIGHTERS AND TERRORIST IT IS THE METHOD WHICH THEY USE TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOAL!!! - dividing Nepalese and gaining power ??what for ???nepal will remain no more!!!!
BE DEMOCRATIC AND FOLLOW DEMOCRACTIC IDEALS IN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL AND IN OUR SOCIETY ...THATS ALL!!!
Nepe Dai, please forgive me for my mistake; I am extremly sorry. I didn't mean to dishearten and disappointment you. Whatever I wrote about you was just my assumption and a result of not reading political articles. Please accept my sincere appology!
I found there is not much difference between you me. No matter how differently we try to put, eventually only that thing will survive which is logical and rational. We all want welfare of country, we all want rule of law, rule of people, rule by good leaders. What is the difference?
Please count on me; you got my vote. I love your aganda; in fact I can blame on you that you have stolen my agenda :). Go for it!
Regarding the article you have posted from Kantipur, all i can say is, most of the people in the world hit easy targets. King is easy target and anyone can hit him. These are the corrupt people who use to dance by king's gesture. These are the people who couldn't see king's face directly. Today, king is powerless and helpless; it is just a weak mentality to hit a weak person. I don't expect any better behavior from our leaders... I know them well........ I don't claim that the king is a good person.... he and leaders are of same catagory.... Buddha said:
One who mistreat friends will face misfortune:
He mistreated SPA leaders who were this dead suporters, specially Deuba and Girija.
Naturally he deserve that! However, it is not a matter of pride to insult/abuse a weak person. I don't think that is a sign of brevery!
I have seen you advocating Republisism at the time when Madhav Kumar Nepal were singing royal songs. I have read your republican idea when Bamdev Gautam accepted Dashian Tika curling 120 degree. I have seen you writing about republic Nepal when Deuba and Girija were fighting to impress the king. Now, what did you get? Nobody knows you except few Sajhaits and your personal friends. Madhav, Bamdev, Sher Bahadur and Girija are real republican today. .... This is Nepal. Be satisfied that your idea is florishing...
If Obama has idea and vision, he will not hand it over to Clinton, instead he will be recognized by his idea. ... I don't trust people of the article who abused king. They are oportunist.... people without ideology .... people without vision. ...they are easy target hitters. ...they were undecleared royalist when king was strong and now turning to pure republicans.
"When the Ship sinks ,rats are the one who escapes first"
Republician or non - republic idea itself is not bad .
Communisim or democratic socialism - capitalism ? communism has failed as philosophy .Many got chance to experiment with it .They all failed .Not only they failed .They failed real bad .So, there is no chance .That we nepalese become another gunea pigs in the hands of neo communists!!!!
Again , i am saying this :System will change , System has changed ..Have we changed ?Has the politicians changed ?So no matter what system you advocate - republic or non-republic .It doesn't really matter. There is no fault of system - people are blaming system unnecessarily.Just to seek some popular whim votes.Shows the character of our leaders.
BUT People are watching Maoist carefully.If this is the behaviour of Maoist.This party itself will be destoyed like anyother communist party in Nepal.I doubt , unless with intimidation .These people will cross 10 seats in parliament(if there will be new one)
Maybe you are educated, but you are not learned and certainly not wise. You mind is not in a state to see whats better. I am sure, you will make the worst decision maker. Certainly I will not blame sheep Nepalese for today's devastation, because people like you come that fleet as well. Trust me, maybe you, your media and terrorists can manipulate the truth, but truth never changes.
Gurkhas blood is stagnant now, so is the reason, killer of 20,000 is openly barking in crowd. It completely feels shame to be a man from the brave "Gurkhas".
Certainly, you Bahuns and Newars are not Gurkhas. The day was the worst, when you all infiltrated in Nepal. You all made the country a puppet of India and China.
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