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harikancha
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Posted on 10-26-09 9:18
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What do you say about this news and his theory? I don't fully know the arkimidis theory. If any physicist are here in sajha they can clear the issue here. But as far as i understand (limited physics), to float, object wil displace water equivalent to the mass of that object that is floating. part of it may be submerged.
Source: नयाँ पत्रिका काठमाडौं, ८ कात्तिक २३ सय वर्षअघि आविष्कार भएको आर्किमिडिज सिद्धान्तलाई गलत भन्दै एक नेपाली विद्यार्थीले नयाँ तथ्य प्रस्तुत गरेका छन् । नेपाली विद्यार्थीको यो दाबीले अन्तर्राष्ट्रिय मान्यता पाए भौतिकशास्त्रका संसारभरिका पाठ्यक्रम नै परिवर्तन गर्नुपर्नेछ । इशापूर्व २८७ मा जन्मिएका गि्रक वैज्ञानिक आर्किमिडिजले सामथ्र्यको सिद्धान्त प्रतिपादन गरेका थिए । आर्किमिडिजको सिद्धान्तअनुसार तरल पदार्थमा उत्रने वस्तुको तौल र सो वस्तुले त्यतिवेला विस्थापन गरेको तरल पदार्थको तौल बराबर हुन्छ । तर, नेपाली विद्यार्थी भविन्द्र कुँवरले उत्रने वस्तुले अनुभव गरेको उध्र्वबल र त्यस वस्तुद्वारा विस्थापित हुने तरल पदार्थको तौल बराबर हुन्छ भन्ने आर्किमिडिजको सिद्धान्त बनावटी र त्रुटिपूर्ण भएको दाबी गरेका छन् । उनले नेपालका तीनवटा कलेजका प्रयोगशालामा आफ्नो दाबी पुष्टि गरेर 'पेटेन्ट राइट'का लागि उद्योग विभागमा निवेदन पनि दिएका छन् । 'कुनै वस्तु तरल पदार्थमा उत्रँदा वा डुब्दा त्यस वस्तुले आफ्नो तौलभन्दा घटी वा बढी जति पनि तौलको तरल पदार्थ विस्थापित गर्छ,' गणित विषयमा स्नातकोत्तर पढ्दै गरेका कुँवरले नयाँ पत्रिकासित भने । उनले काठमाडौं मेडिकल कलेज, युनिभर्सल कलेज र हेराल्ड इन्टरनेसनल कलेजमा आफ्नो दाबीलाई प्रयोग गरेर देखाएका छन् । आफ्नो नयाँ प्रयोगले सतहमा रहेको पानीबाट धेरै विद्युतीय ऊर्जा निकाल्न सहयोगी हुने दाबी गरेका छन् । उनको सिद्धान्त अन्तर्राष्ट्रिय प्रयोगशालाबाट पुष्टि भए नेपालका नदीनालाबाट ८३ खर्ब मेगावाटभन्दा बढी बिजुली उत्पादन गर्न बाटो खुल्नेछ । उनले आफ्नो प्रयोगबारे भने, '२० ग्राम पानी भएको भाँडोमा तीन सय ग्रामको गिलास राखियो भने सजिलै उत्रन्छ । विस्थापित पानी २० ग्रामभन्दा कम छ भने गिलासको तौल ३०० ग्राम छ । त्यसैले विस्थापित पानी र उत्रने वस्तुको तौल बराबर हुनै सक्दैन ।' कुनै वस्तु तरल पदार्थमा उत्रँदा वा डुब्दा त्यस वस्तुले आफ्नो तौलभन्दा घटी वा बढी पानी विस्थापित गर्छ, त्यसमा दूरी प्रमुख कारण हुन्छ भन्ने कुँवरको दाबी छ । उनले भने, 'भर्टिकलमा प्रयोग गर्दा दूरी कम हुन्छ र बढी तरल पदार्थ विस्थापित हुन्छ । तर, दूरी धेरै भयो भने कम तरल पदार्थ विस्थापित हुन्छ ।' उनले आफ्नो प्रयोगले कम तरल पदार्थमा धेरै ऊर्जा उत्पादन हुने दाबी गरे । उनका अनुसार कम तरल पदार्थ विस्थापित गराएर धेरै ऊर्जा उत्पादन गर्न सकिन्छ । यही आधारमा उनले नेपालमा ८३ खर्ब मेगावाट विद्युत् उत्पादन गर्न सकिने दाबी गरेका हुन् । हेराल्ड इन्टरनेसनल कलेजका फिजिक्स टिचर बालविक्रम खत्रीले कुँवरको प्रयोग हेर्दा आर्किमिडिजको सिद्धान्त त्रुटिपूर्ण देखिएको बताए । 'हाम्रोमा उपलब्ध सामग्रीबाट प्रयोग गर्दा आर्किमिडिजको सिद्धान्त फेल देखियो,' खत्रीले भने, 'यसलाई अन्तर्राष्ट्रिय मान्यता दिलाउन थप प्रयोग गर्नुपर्छ ।' कुवरले उद्योग विभागमा 'सामथ्र्यको सिद्धान्त र त्यससँग सम्बन्धित उध्र्वचापमा आधारित ऊर्जा प्रविधि'को पेटेन्ट दर्ताका लागि आवेदन दिएका छन् । १६ माघ ०६५ मा द.नं. ७३९ मा आवेदन दर्ता गराएपछि उद्योग विभागले सम्बन्धित विषयका विज्ञसँग छलफलसमेत गरेको छ । के हो आर्किमिडिजको सिद्धान्त ? कुनै वस्तु तरल पदार्थमा डुब्दा त्यस वस्तुले अनुभव गरेको ऊध्र्वचाप -upthrust_ वा घटेको ताैल त्यस वस्तुद्वारा विस्थापित हुने तरल पदार्थको ताैलसँग बराबर हुन्छ । (स्रोतः अक्र्सफोर्ड डिस्क्टनेरी अफ फिजिस्क) उदाहरण : तरल पदार्थले भरिएको कुनै भाँडोमा कुनै एउटा वस्तु डुबाउँदा त्यसको घटेको तौल १०० ग्राम छ भने त्यसले विस्थापित गरेको तरल पदार्थको तौल पनि १०० ग्राम नै अर्थात् बराबर हुन्छ । कुँवरले दाबी गरेको सामथ्र्यको सिद्धान्त: कुनै वस्तु तरल पदार्थमा डुब्दा त्यस वस्तुले अनुभव गरेको उध्र्वचाप -upthrust_ वा घटेको तौलसँग त्यस वस्तुद्वारा विस्थापित हुने तरल पदार्थको तौल -weight of the liquid displaced_ घटी वा बढी जे पनि हुन्छ । उदाहरण: दुईवटा पेपरगिलास लिऊँ । एउटा पेपरगिलासमा १०० ग्राम पानी छ । तर, १०० ग्राम पानी भएको गिलास २५ ग्राम पानी भएको अर्का गिलासमा राख्यो भने सजिलै उत्रन्छ । यसबाट तैरिने वस्तुको १०० ग्राम तौल नै घटेको हुन्छ । तर विस्थापित तरल पदार्थ २५ ग्रामभन्दा कम हुन्छ । नयाँ सिद्धान्तबाट लिन सकिने फाइदा: यो सिद्धान्त अन्तर्राष्ट्रिय प्रयोगशालाबाट समेत पुष्टि भई मान्यता पाए २३ सय वर्षअघिको सिद्धान्तका कमजोरी पत्ता लागी भौतिकशास्त्रमा नयाँ सत्यको उद्घाटन हुनेछ । यसले ऊर्जाका क्षेत्रमा नयाँ अध्यायको थालनी गर्छ । जस्तो : नेपालको कुल विद्युत् उत्पादनक्षमता ८३ हजार मेगावाट भनिएकोमा यो सिद्धान्तअनुसार ८३ खर्ब मेगावाटभन्दा बढी हुन्छ । विद्युत् उत्पादनका लागि बेलायतबाट आरम्भ भएको टर्वाइन प्रणालीबाट अहिलेसम्म बिजुली उत्पादन भइरहेकोमा यो सिद्धान्तअनुसार त्योभन्दा कम खर्चमा बढी ऊर्जा उत्पादन गर्न सकिनेछ ।
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-26-09 9:42
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मलाइ चाही यो समाचार अलि हावादारी लग्यो है| उदाहरण त्रुटिपूर्ण देखिन्छ| दिइएको उदाहरण: दुईवटा पेपरगिलास लिऊँ । एउटा पेपरगिलासमा १०० ग्राम पानी छ । तर, १०० ग्राम पानी भएको गिलास २५ ग्राम पानी भएको अर्का गिलासमा राख्यो भने सजिलै उत्रन्छ । यसबाट तैरिने वस्तुको १०० ग्राम तौल नै घटेको हुन्छ । तर विस्थापित तरल पदार्थ २५ ग्रामभन्दा कम हुन्छ । --------- २५ ग्राम (२५ मिलिलिटर) पानी मा अर्को गिलास उत्रिने कुरा अलि हजम भयन है| माथिको गिलास पक्का पनि तलको गिलास को कन्ट्याक्टमा हुनु पर्छ|
Last edited: 26-Oct-09 10:21 AM
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balbahadur
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Posted on 10-26-09 11:27
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I dont even think that example was strong enough or credible enough. May be that reporter interpreted his examples wrong.. And I dont think archimidies theory has any flaw!!
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-26-09 12:03
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This is one of simplest and most beautiful principles in Physics... I have absolutely no idea what our local scientist is talking about really... This may be of interest: http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/archimedesprinciple.html Archimedes (c. 287-212 BC) is considered as one of the greatest mathematicians and inventors of all time.
Archimedes was born in Syracuse, Sicily. He lived there most of his life. When the Romans attacked Syracuse, Archimedes invented weapons to defend the city. He is said to have suggested a method of employing mirrors to set enemy ships afire. After a two-year siege the Romans finally entered the city, and Archimedes was killed in the battle that followed. Among his other important inventions: the lever, the compound pulley and Archimedes’ screw.
But his greatest fame lies in the field of mathematics. Archimedes was able to apply the method of exhaustion, which is the early form of integration, by which he calculated different areas and volumes of geometric shapes and solids. Archimedes also gave an accurate approximation to π and showed that he could approximate square roots accurately. He invented a system for expressing large numbers.
In mechanics Archimedes discovered fundamental theorems concerning the centre of gravity of plane figures and solids. His most famous theorem gives the weight of a body immersed in a liquid, called after him, Archimedes' principle - that a body immersed in a fluid is subject to an upward force (buoyancy) equal in magnitude to the weight of fluid it displaces.
Legend says that Archimedes discovered the principle of displacement while stepping into a full bath. He realized that the water that ran over equaled in volume the submerged part of his body. Through further experiments, he deduced the above mentioned Archimedes' principle.
The legends goes further and tells that Archimedes was so excited with his discovery that he hopped out of the bath, and rushed naked into the street yelling triumphantly, "Eureka!" "Eureka!" (Greek word for 'I have found it!).
Another legend describes how Archimedes uncovered a fraud against King Hieron II of Syracuse using his principle of buoyancy. The king suspected that a solid gold crown he ordered was partly made of silver. Archimedes took two pieces of pure gold and of pure silver that had weights identical to the weight of the crown. He then successively immerses the gold, the silver, and the crown in a container filled to the brim with water and measured the volume of water that overflowed with each material. He found that the crown displaced more water than the gold but less than the silver, thereby proving that the crown contained some other metal which was less dense than gold.
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LvuNepal
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Posted on 10-26-09 12:26
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Looks totally stupid!!! Please do not try to float a paper cup in another paper cup of same size. The walls of the paper cups could be sticking to each other by a layer of water. If you try to float a small cup in a big cup with no wall contats, then it could make sense.
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-26-09 1:31
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Another thing: I wonder how this is related to producing hydro???
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pire
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Posted on 10-26-09 1:43
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नेपाली पत्रकार हरुले देशको बेइज्जत गर्ने भए, जे पायो तेही छापेर। फेरी हाम्रो देशमा के भाछ भने सस्तो प्रचारको लागी मैले आइन्सटाइनलाई गल्ती सिद्द गरें, मैले हावाइजहाज उडाए, बिजुली निकाले भन्ने हावा नै आएको छ। यसो गर्दा अरु बच्चाहरुलाई पनि सस्तो हल्ला चलाऊने रहर चल्छ, खराब रोल मोडेल हरु बढ्छन। यो पनि तेस्ताइ हावा कुरो हो। माथि एक पोस्टर ले भनेको जस्तो यो सबभन्दा साधारण , सबभन्दा सुन्दर थेओरी हो , जुन हजारौं वर्षदेखी मान्छेले मान्दै आइेको छ, तेसको आधारमा धेरै अरु साइन्टिफिक काम भएका छन। तेस्सै हावामा गलत भन्दिने? अनी पत्रकार वा कालेजको टिचर कुन अथोरिटि हो तेसो भन्न? यो बच्चा हरुलाई मेरो सुझाब, पहिला लुरुलुरु पढ, ग्राजुएट स्कुल जाउ, बल्ल धेरै कुरो बुझ्छौ। रिसर्च कसरी गर्ने, कसरी थ्योरेम सिद्ध गर्ने भन्ने नजानेको उमेरमा ठुल्ठुल्ओ हल्ला गर्न हुँदैन, जिन्दगी भरी तिमीलाई लाज हुन्छ।
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-26-09 1:58
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And yes.. Where's that Joker who claimed to prove Einstein wrong earlier this year? As Pire suggested, clowns who know nothing about academic research are increasingly claiming to have derailed the entire sceintific authority here... This ain't nothing more than a sick joke.
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arahat
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Posted on 10-26-09 2:56
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How this guy is different that another genius disproving Newton's theory? Why does this guy gets bashed while another one gets accolade?
I watched the interview of that kid and in that interview, he was just giving the list of names of people who didn't help him. He was exaggerating too much. There's no follow-up on him after his return from NASA's 'so called' scientists conference.
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Pret Aatma
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Posted on 10-26-09 3:09
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Oh no, not again!
My only question (wherein, I feel, lies the glitch):
Why would you use a 'paper' glass in the first place? Why not use a normal glass (made of steel or other objects) whose density is HIGHER than water? Or use another dense fluid inside the "floating" glass whose density is higher than water? If it is repeatable (not that I believe in his claim with paper glass), then there would be some credibility to give a second thought on his claim.
Secondly, even if it is possible with 100 gm of water, could you replicate this with say 5 liters of water? Will your paper glass be able to hold it?
Using objects of same or lower density than water is not gonna cut it...
Bottom line: Another hoax in the making. More than the charlatans, I am disgusted by these worthless, incompetent, and thoughtless journalists who would write ANYTHING for money. Really disgusting.
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quicksiler
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Posted on 10-26-09 3:47
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i found another flaw in his theory. he claims: "यसबाट तैरिने वस्तुको १०० ग्राम तौल नै घटेको हुन्छ । तर विस्थापित तरल पदार्थ २५ ग्रामभन्दा कम हुन्छ । " if the object that is floating loses 100gm and it displace only less than 25 gm then where is the remaining 75 gram. 75 gm just gone into vain. this again go againts universal law : energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only transfom. i didn't see any transformation of energy. ki yo universal law pani fail khayo!!!!!!
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pire
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Posted on 10-26-09 4:16
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I had a villager who claimed he had discovered the medicine for AIDS. He was a liar who hadn't paid his loans to several others, so locals dismissed him. His son was somewhere in jail (I think in Canada) for some kind of fraud charges, (of course he wouldn't say it, but his friends figured that out). About six months later, he emerged in KTM's national media, with the same declaration. The skeptic locals suddenly were stunned--did he really do it? "If Kathmandu's media believes it, who are we to disbelieve him?" this was what they thought. What the villagers didn't know was the deep corruption and ignorance that runs through the KTM media. Whether in carrying the news of a fake billionaire or fake scientists, they don't even check the claims, and run the news. The man who claimed to have discovered AIDS medicine was later exposed to be a quack, but he made some quick bucks and more than anything else, he didn't have to go to jail. Needless to say, the journalists who propagated the false claims didn't have to go to jail either.
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arahat
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Posted on 10-26-09 4:21
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Further, nayapatrika is the maoist paper. Just like with new flag, maoists may be trying to have their own scientists with new theories in New Nepal (under indian leadership).
Just like maosansar, nayapatrika don't publish your comment if you write anything against the gist of the news.
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-26-09 4:26
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I would not be surprised now if theory after theory would just fall like flies. Thanks to the genius Nepali kids...
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NightElf
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Posted on 10-26-09 4:27
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According to Archimedes principle the VOLUME of displaced liquid is equal to the submerged object and not WEIGHT. If the liquid is dense enough so that the weight of displaced liquid is greater than that of the object, the object will float if not it will sink. The article posted talks about volumes of liquid being unequal as grounds for dismissal of Archimedes principle. No such claim about weights of object and displaced liquid being equal was made by Archemides. Here is the root statement of Archimedes principle: "Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object." - Source Wikipedia As you can see the above statement does not say that the weight of displaced liquid is equal to that of the object. Following this statement, Archimedes has worked out the floating or sinking of an object in a given liquid based on the relation between the two weights mentioned in the article. i.e. Archimedes never said those weights were equal and in fact worked out what would happen if the weights were unequal. In my opinion the above article is arbitrary and baseless. Did all the people in Nepal who had knowledge about physics migrate abroad???
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Ved555
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Posted on 10-26-09 8:07
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yeah.. brain drain seems to be at the completion.... I understand what the idiot is trying to prove... there's a flaw... this guy thinks weight is same as the mass. He keeps on saying a floating glass lost 100 g... the mass cannot vanish. That 100 gram mass of water is right there (see the diagram below). And the weight of that mass of water (= 0.1kg X 10 m/s/s = 1N) is also still there. That mass of water floats because the pressure from below multiplied by area equals exactly 1 N, which happens to be equal to 100 g of water. That's Archimedes Baje's principle. Therefore, the density of liquid supporting that glass matters... here it's water. If it's mercury, then the floating glass would be floating much above than shown in the diagram. I agree floating glass (containing 100 g water, assume paper glass has zero gram) can be put inside another glass containing 25 gm of water and make it float (without touching the wall of the glass). Where is the 75 gm of water? Well, if you start the experiment with the bottom glass full of water.. the 75 g of water would have spilled over. In his experimenting he only avoided that spillage !!!!!! Now I really suspect Baburam Bhattarai's phd !!! ha ha ha.
Last edited: 26-Oct-09 09:57 PM
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pokhari
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Posted on 10-26-09 10:25
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It is a baseless reporting of a claim. The guy claimed he has proved it in 3 colleges in Nepal, then where are the comments of Nepali professors and scientist. Anybody can claim anything and Nepali newspaper will publish without any supporting documents or verifications. If I remember correctly, there was another report few months ago that Nepali scientist has proved Newton's gravitational law wrong.
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pire
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Posted on 10-26-09 10:48
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पत्रकारहरुको अर्को समस्या के छ भने उनिहरु यस्ता क्लेम लेख्छन मात्र हैन कि अनी 'लौ सरकारले केही सहयोग गरेन' भनेर लेख्छन। अब यस्ता हावा लाई के सहयोग गर्नु? बोल्न सक्ने ले सरकार लाई दुहुनो गाई बनाएर लुट्ने चलन अती भईसक्यो। अस्ती भर्खर पुषकर शाहले भनेकी सरकारले केही गरेन। ए बाबा, के गर्ने, उनी आफ्नो खुशीले साइकल चलाएर गए, अब उनको रिटायरमेण्ट फण्ड गरीब जनताले दिनुपर्ने? कि जानु अघी नै सोच्नु पर्छ आएर के खाउला के लाउला भनेर? कि पहिल्यै टुरिज्म बोर्ड्लाई म आएपछी जागीर दिनुहोला भन्नु पर्यो। पत्रकारहरुले त जथाभावी पैसा बाड्ने कुरो को विरोध गर्नु पर्ने हो। जाजरकोटका गरीब खान नपाएर मरेको बेला कुनै पत्रकारलाई औषधी खर्च कुनै कबिलाई के खर्च बाडेको देख्दा मन कटक्क दुख्छ। बोल्न सक्ने लाई लाख रजाई,बोल्न नसक्नेलाई अत्यन्त शासना, यो कहाको न्याय हो ? पत्रकारहरुले बरु यस्तो कुरो पो लेख्नु।
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sachokura
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Posted on 10-27-09 8:37
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Pire, Well Said. I had same feeling after I read puskar saha's news. It was his decision to go for world tour. Why he now asks for support form government? Same with this new scientist.
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newlynew
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Posted on 10-27-09 9:12
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Yo chahi kasari hunch archimedes ko principle la fail babayara?? "नेपालको कुल विद्युत् उत्पादनक्षमता ८३ हजार मेगावाट भनिएकोमा यो सिद्धान्तअनुसार ८३ खर्ब मेगावाटभन्दा बढी हुन्छ ।" Does he even know how large is ८३ खर्ब मेगावाट ?
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