- http://kantipuronline.com/columns.php?&nid=87329

REPUBLIC SUPPORTERS ARE LIKE THE GREEN PARTY SUPPORTERS DURING THE BUSH-GORE ELECTION YEAR. Yeah the supporters of Ralph Nader did not want Dubya to be their president. But as a result of their spliting votes from the Democrats....Bush came into office with his electorial college, and has been here since then.

As for people like Many, he he Ok Republic supporters are not Mao's ...FINE. But as a result of your actions, gave oppertunity to Mao's to seize power. I asked Republic supporters time and again before the King stepped down, WHAT NEXT ? BUT NOBODY HAD ANY ANSWERS. JUST LIKE BUSH WENT INTO IRAQ without a contingency plan. Therefore I hold the REPUBLIC SUPPORTERS ACCOUNTABLE for the PITIFUL STATE OF THE COUNTRY TODAY.

Bathroom Coffee -

Let me begin by saying I have followed you Sajha and have come to respect your candour , objectivity and straight-talk.

That said, I couldnt disagree more with your last post.

" REPUBLIC SUPPORTERS ARE LIKE THE GREEN PARTY SUPPORTERS DURING THE BUSH-GORE ELECTION YEAR."

Not really. Not if you scratch the surface. That's not what the opinion polls are saying. That's not true even by conventional wisdom given the breadth of support for a republic across party lines in Nepal. Nader's supporters were very marginal, barely over 5% in most places, but republicanism is much more prevelant and widespread in Nepal. That's like comparing peanuts and bananas.

" I asked Republic supporters time and again before the King stepped down, WHAT NEXT ? BUT NOBODY HAD ANY ANSWERS. ...... Therefore I hold the REPUBLIC SUPPORTERS ACCOUNTABLE for the PITIFUL STATE OF THE COUNTRY TODAY."

That statement flies in the face of reason. Obviously you are smart enough to know what is next but let me state it for the record: CA elections (and possibly a referendrum on the Monarchy along with it), disarmament and assimilation of the PLA into the NA, new constitution and then a general election. This is as per the understanding reached between SPA and the Maoists. No, they don't have a 350-item project plan but there is a general consensus in Nepal today of the direction the country should take. Sure, there are sticky issues like the Monarchy, but unless the SPA and Maoists do something really stupid, which so far they haven't, I think things are proceeding on the right track. The country is headed in the right direction and the overwhelming majority of people agree with me.

As for specific plans for national development, that is for the parties to come up with when they go into the general elections. The political focus now is on building a robust governance model that will last for a long time, and on that account, I think they are doing a fairly satisfactory job. There is still a lot to be done, no doubt, but I think we are getting there and will get there, even though it might be a bumpy ride, because we don't have any other choice at this time than to make things work in this country again.

My 2 cents.

Captain :
you are too optimistic...i must say.. you could not or have not or don't want to analyze the maoist true intention.If you think they are and will be satisfied with few seats in multi-party democracy ..then you are dreaming.This is not and was not the intention of maoist before they started and they openly still saying that this conventional democracy is not what they want.
Who gurantees what ? in this circumstance.. but i appreciate your commitment to democratic values and norms.

IMI -

May be I am optimistic, but cautiosuly so, and for the right reasons as far as I am concerned. I do have opinions on mainstreaming the Maoists, which I have expressed on other threads. I don't trust them blindly, for that matter I dont trust the SPA or King blindly either, but I firmly believe the Maoists want to mainstream and it is incumbent upon all sensible Nepalese to help them mainstream. The Maoist leadership has said they are commited to multi-party demcoracy (as per Comrade Prachanda) and while we need to hold their feet to the fire over this, I don't think it serves the country any good to demonize them and hound them out of the peace process for this reason.

Also, while I consider myself moderate centrist, I am an objective voter and my vote is up for grabs. If the Maoists disarm and come up with an election agenda, I am willing give them a fair hearing. If Gyanendra decided to run for President , I will give him a fair hearing too and am open to being convinced why I should vote for him. For now, I am willing to give the SPA the chance to set things right in this country because I think they are best positioned today to fix the mess we are in (part of which is their own creation).

Captain,
You are talking like Dubya. Yeah sure America is wining the war on terror. But if you look at Afganisthan and Iraq, you will see otherwise. You can put whatever spin in support of so called Republic movement. But all I see is death, destruction, and despair for the citizens of Nepal. This daylight robbery is helpless businessmen, forced occupation of general citizens to accomodate the Maoist, eschewment of law and order.
And you come and tell me the country is in the right path ? C'mmon now !! YOU REALLY THINK NEPALI PEOPLE ARE THAT GULLIBLE ? HE HE

I stand by everything I said and I have no reason to spin. Revolutions are messy, stuff like this takes time, and Nepal is no Iraq. There is no reasonable basis to compare the two countries. Are Nepalesle gullible? No, but they certainly are not as cynical as you. Also, what is the alternative to not fixing our problems ? Sit there and do nothing? Things are not going perfectly but there is progress being made towards a new political system whether you accept it or not. It sure is moving slower than I want but there is a realization across the board, including amongst many Maosist and Royalists, that this is the best way, in fact the only meaningful way, to move forward. Inspite of it's imperfections, flaws and slow-pace, I don't see a better alternative to the current political process at this time.

And if there is one, I'd like you to spell it out for me : I'll lend you my ear.

So in other words you are ok with all the extortion, lawless Mao anarchy ? NEPAL IS ABOUT TO BECOME A RED STATE. thanks to people like your support. Knowing the fact that Communism failed in every country that tried it, I don't see much hope in the horizon. And your demure dismissing this as part of Revolution baffles me.

If educated people like you had been a lil more patient instead of joing the Mao Badwagon....maybe the country would not have been as bad of a situation as it is now.
I think dismissing the whole situation as part of the process I think is just pure ignorance.

Captain wrote:
"Fairness is a subjective term and the US elections, if ranked with other elections held that year, were probably one of the fairest in the world, in my opinion. I do wish the outcome had been different but you cannot preach democracy on one hand and refuse to accept the results on the democratic process on the other. That, in my opinion, is hypocrisy, and negates the rest of your argument on the subject."

sure. let me begin by iterating, i have a huge respect for democratic norms and procedure. BUT as much as i respect democracy and its doctrines, at times, it has failed to earn me the credibilty that an otherwise logical/analytica/practical reasonings would give me. it's like i revere god out of sheer respect, but i am skeptic about their existence. or let's say, i am not a blind believer/follower (i am not an atheist by any means).

at this point, allow me the privilege to recall the 2037 BS referendum of panchayat system vs. multiparty system. let's not scrutinize on how that referendum took place and/or question at its fairness. let's look at the end result, that is what it matters. if a democratic decision was logical/fair enough, panchayat would not have won. what happened thereafter? we were pushed by ten years before multiparty system was restored.

at a risk of sounding hypocrite, what i am trying to put forth is, if you are against a sytem/institution, if you know that it's becoming a major hindrance in the path of a democratic practice, you should revolt and try to demolish/uproot it rather than keeping it at status quo and going for a more democratic approach (referendum) to see if it gets ousted. it's a big stake coz chances are, 9 out of 10 times, that system will prevail. it seems even more likely in nepal's context as we are in a rather unstable transient phase and i firmly believe that there are munificent people aplenty who are currently reticent and uninclined to any forces be it spa, maoists or king. the more the spa and maoists procrastinate to come into accord, the more the king/royals will cash in transit. and we all know how considerate we nepali people are. we have a strong tendency to forgive and forget literelly anything and anyone.

it's quite obvious that nepal cannot be led with all of these three forces alive. the seven parties are the essence of our democratic platform. they are the backbone so they have to prevail. the king and the maoists are the extreme forces which are inco-existent. maoists have raised the voice and revolted against the incompetent and narcissist system which sucked nepal for centuries. they have every right to be a part of our democratic system if they are committed to remain within it's periphery. the only force that is absurd, burden and uncouth is the monarchy. if it prevails through referendum, nepal will be back to where we were 10 years back.

LooTe

Oh, how very enlightening!

No, I am not OK with extortion, killings and violence. I want them to stop. The way to stop them is to take the PLA and the militia off the streets. And the only plausible way to do that is to bring their parent political organization into the mainstream. But I am really curious to know how you think it should be done since you seem to think everyone else is ignorant on the subject and it appears there is something you know that mere mortals like us dont. If there is a better way of resolving the Maoist issue, I'd like to know what exactly that is.

Last comment was for Bathroom Coffee.

Loote, I am still reading your comments.

hahaha...captain,
i welcome your inputs (as i always do).

bc, my friend,
over the years, i have come to realise that you've got to take what you are served in your plate, rather than whining and longing to sooth your hunger, it's not gonna help. even if i agree to remain skeptic about maoists, i will rather choose lesser of teh evils, which in my view are maoists. :P

LooTe

Loote - What republicans might be able to count on in a referendrum is the fact that the people are desperate for peace. If that means having to overthrow the monarchy, then that is a price people will be willing to pay if the issue is framed correctly to them. If you look at the writing on the wall, the trends don't bode well for the Monarchy at all and I think there is critical mass in the country now that wants the institution abolished.

I don't have too much of a problem with abolishing the Monarchy in the interim constitution but, let's get real, that is not going to happen because our politicians are never going to agree on the subject. The referendrum, assuming people will opt for a republic, which I think is a fair assumption, will not only force such fence sitting politicians to embrace the republic, but it will also add an extra dose of legitimacy to the republic. Such a moral victory will be critical in winning over, and mainstreaming if you will, elements of the Army and the right who are deeply loyal to the King and could create obstacles in re-structuring the state (or at least those parts of it that are horribly dysfunctional).

This is the great debate of our times and I dont expect we will all agree on everything. After all democracy means accepting different view points and ways of doing things. Let the best way win.

Do Nepal and Nepalese NEED king and royal families?

Why we need?

what are the benefit from keeping King or monarchy in Nepal?

loote..
This is beauty of democracy that sometimes it doesn't go in favor of what you want.If the things you think is only correct and in your analysis and reasoning correct works ..would that be democracy.Undoubtly there has not been any philosophy more successful than democracy so your skeptical nature regards to think that you have yet learn to respect other who differ your opinion.I for example if a fair election elects PRACHANDA next President of Nepal.I am ready to accept it.Mind it what i say..fair elections(yes fair in terms of neutral people).Where as you disagreee and disrespect the decision of millions of people who favor KING.

I know you are not maoist and you know i am not royalist.we differ in view and we express ourselfs because it is the freedom of speach and thinking.That is democracy.
In communisism ..it is much more similar to king.There is always one person who is ruling and in command like :CASTRO,MAO,LENIN...they are similar kind of idol worshippers.

why i think Nepal needs king :i am not royalist some dumb fuc%s immediately runs after my ass when i say this...hehhee

1]King is not as evil as he has been potrayed
2]Inability of Nepalese politicians
3]Culture and History are linked with it

now i don't need to explain this . i think you guys can think for yourself.Even then Nepalese people decide to kick out king knowing the incapability of their ,it is still acceptable to me.

captain,
not only i plaudit your arguments,i it feels good to see my views in unison with yours. i don't deny that referendum is the most democratic approach one can ever go for. the only thing that bothered me to think in a rather undemocratic way is my skepticism over the result from refrendum.

of course, what majority of nepalese want should be credited coz that is the most democratic approach. if the verdict goes against monarchy, i don't see much problem. if not, then the big question will be, will it be in favor of the greater benefit of nepal and nepalese in the long run, if monarchy prevails? i am very, very dubious.

1) maoists may welcome the verdict in favor of king, but how will they fit in themselves to the political framework with king? how will king accomodate himself with maoists? it will be ceremonial aliright, but monarchy will still be pretty much on a role in the politics of nepal.

2) the greedy and manipulative nature of king G and and his cronies will not let the political vehicle of nepal to run smoothly without much intervention.

i read prachanda's interview somewhere where he explicitly mentioned that anything other than republic will not be to their satiation in the long run. hence i won't be surprised if another revolution for republic hits nepal in few years down the road, if monarchy prevail through referendum.

let's see how things shape up in the next few days. congress are still up for ceremonial monarchy. cpn-uml want referendum while other parties have divided vision. some want CA to decide the fate of the king while others want to see monarchy getting ousted right away. it's quite a chaotic situation spa are into.

ImI,
i agree with you on the referendum being the most democratic way. however, i don't agree with you on the reasons you have stated for the necessity of monarchy in nepal. but again, its your way of thinking, which sadly does not resonate with mine :P

LooTe

1) maoists may welcome the verdict in favor of king, but how will they fit in themselves to the political framework with king? how will king accomodate himself with maoists? it will be ceremonial aliright, but monarchy will still be pretty much on a role in the politics of nepal.
----------------------------------------------------
- How a ceremonial monarchy have any role in politics.He will be the one who will be going for indrajatra and godhe jatra and etc...I don't get ur suspcious nature.
- Man, if janta wants to give him that job ..why do you have so much headache?????

2) the greedy and manipulative nature of king G and and his cronies will not let the political vehicle of nepal to run smoothly without much intervention.
--------------------------------------------------------------

- How and what kind of intrevation another maoist like war and who is going to support that.can king be so active ...SEE there is no logic but suspicions in your statements..which is not really good at this stage...If you have suspcion on KING's commitment to democracy then millions have suspicion of maoist commitment to democracy


IF MAOIST DO NOT RESPECT PEOPLE'S WISHES AND REVOLTS AGAIN, WHAT DOES THAT TELL U ABOUT MAOIST?????- think and give me answer that i like to hear.

- How a ceremonial monarchy have any role in politics.He will be the one who will be going for indrajatra and godhe jatra and etc...I don't get ur suspcious nature.
- Man, if janta wants to give him that job ..why do you have so much headache?????

1) i don't think this king will settle for that. even if he does, what's the guarantee that paras or hridayandra will remain happy with that? KG would rather invest for a tea factory or other business than sitting on a ceremonial chair and attend jatras.

2) do we really need a ceremonial figure? we have already enough number of gods to worship, why another freakin demigod?

3) maoists and monarchy are inco-existent. it's imperative that one force get demolished for the greater goods of nepal. that's what i firmly believe in.

4) personally, i have more faith on maoists than monarchy. it's not just the faith, i see rationale in their revolution so that makes me more faithful towards them. i may sound biased to the centrists or royalists, but that's what i feel and i like to express what i feel.

LooTe

loote..you have clearly indicated you have bias views so it is worthless to discuss cause i cannot convince you to take a step in the middle and think about national unity and good democratic process and practices.

Why would they be satified with ceremonial role-
-it is good to have something than nothing
-there are other ceremonial monarchs people had same kind of suspicion as you but they have remained there for 100s of years.
- your reasoning is based on suspcion so holds no value though i value freedom of speach

Though some demands of maoist are reasonable ..most of them are plain stupid even from neutral point of view.

Recent days even after peace agreements they have shown disrespect not for only king, SPA and People but also Human rights, freedom of speach, child exploitation .This sends clear message to the world that they still have to learn to be human first and learn democracy(ain't it funny teaching maoist democracy)

CRAP! NO ARGUMENTS!
HAIL KING! HAIL NEPAL!!
ANYONE AGAINST IT, HEREBY YOU ALL ARE DECLARED MAOIST-TERRORIST AS YOU ARE NOT OBEYING THE PRINCIPLE FOR THE SMOOTH PROCESSING OF NEPAL!
SCREW SPA AND MAOISTS!
ALL NEED TO BE GUNNED DOWN!
NO TIME FOR DEBATE WITH A$$HOLES.
ADJOURNED!