San,

I know Sajha is your baby and you have every right to give it any kind of haircut you choose. But as a frequent clicker of your site, I too have every right to voice my grievances.

It looks like creative work is getting a very low priority in your new format.

1. First, the headings for Stories/Poems,Ghazals/Humor section are collapsed. Why can’t you display the five most recent threads and give an option of ‘More’ for these headings as well? Are we really that less important than ‘Kurakani’?

2. Kurakani & Classifieds & Immigration take precedence over creative writings. Call me biased, but I favor “Ek haat testai” over ‘Graduate Lady Wanted for Marriage’ any given married day.

I don’t know about other writers, but I write here because I want to reach to more people. I have always been as shameless as humanly possible about it. With this thread, I am only taking it to a new height of shamelessness.

I come to Sajha because nobody promoted me more than you did in the beginning (not even SNDY). I have always felt deeply grateful and a little embarrassed because I was not worth it.

There are some very good writers/poets in Sajha. I am sure I speak for all of them when I ask you: “Did your dingo eat my thread, San?” ( It’s a Seinfeld line, I have no idea what it means).

I hope you will reconsider. By now, Sajha to you must be more than just a product. Whatever you reply, please don’t tell me to do: “Hey sum_off, you can always click on ‘I like Old Style’."

The reason we are still humans is because we are so used to defaults.

.well my above aside was more in flimsy manner .. im making no bones here.. but by doing so i was in a way dishonoring the thoughts that were positioned by senior sajha patrons such as C. Haddock, which i didn intend to do...
all i could grasp is sharing this platform is good for all...so be positive and avoid being personal...
this is what i could comprehend towards the end, and to add something here you don’t have to attack others to get you share of the pie...just my thought..
(just my thought © with CH btw :))

Haddock, time and again I have always found you to be the "conscience" of sajha...I'd once called you the only true gentleman on sajha and your diplomacy in words and the way you unite everyone here, even in times when others have lost their cool has left a conclusion in my mind that if ever San was to look for a moderator, you'd definitely be among the top on my list (myself being the top candidate…hahaha That'll be the end of what we know as sajha then!! Identity theft galore!! hahaha). In Bhaley's thread asking why/where all the intellectuals left sajha, I'm glad I mentioned your name as one in a post there as your responses have always been a far-cry from the posts I've read from all others. Reading your last post above brings about a lil bit of an eerie resemblance how I think (in some vague way); we both will not quietly take anything that irks us to the core. Hey, your posts and reasoning above are good enough for me to try and hold off on sajha some of the words I use frequently in my everyday life but the perpetrators will still get a dose of the medicine they deserve! Hahaha BTW, just as you said about me in one of your posts above, me too felt the same here: I had to pluck the flowers when I could still smell them (I may never get the same opportunity to bare it all again, bro).

BTW, even though loote needs some comeback for some of the comments he's said directly to me, his name just brings about an image of the Taco Bell chiuhuaua that just re-routes me to another mode of thinking that he's ended up being saved from the wrath of Samsara. I'm just gonna pass on defending a few allegations there...Too bad that I'll hold off on that for some other thread as this one just has had about enough of all this Bull!!


Finally San bro, in terms of sajha's well-being, I second the motion for a moderator here. Also, I think a Finance link on the homepage would be another great idea especially with all the help emini's thread and some of the housing and foreign exchange threads here have been to me and the others here. And as per loote's suggestion for kicking out the peeps here who get a negative rating from the members here, how on earth do you think that’s gonna stop trolling activities?? How hard is it to use a university/work/internet café (or another IP) and come back with a new handle and start the same BS over and again?? I think this task should entirely be left upto the moderator. And San, know that if Haddock passes the opportunity, I would definitely be interested. Can I send in my resume?

LOL....
captain, knowing you, i knew the reply's gonna be an essay

i am excited that you opined along the line of disagreement with me this time (as very rarely it has happened no ? :P). you gotta say, what you gotta say boy...so don't worry be it's yours truly or some tom, dick or harry you don't want to agree with. :D

coming back to the topic, and let me make it as short as possible:

i said:
the best medicine, in most instances IMO, is to ignore.

then you said:
Ignoring them, beyond a certain point, is absolving them of personal responsibility IMO

then both of us kinda agreed to the notion that san or some moderators should come into action for extreme cases.

if you missed my point in the hurry of striking your keyboards again :P, here's what i said:

for extreme abnormalities and reckless behaviors, San da Cop is always there and that's why my proposal of moderators to him--to help him in his duties.

so we both are on the same boat in this for the most part. the only difference being, and i am more confident in saying this after your interpretation of my tolerance/patience as your cowardice, you may choose to lose your cool to a troll, i have chosen to wear thick armors against them and i am happy that way

to be very candid, i have found that in most of the cases, trolls have the least patience/tolerance of all. you ignore them first time, they may come back again. you ignore them second time, they may fire up. ignore the third time, and most of them are gone. agreed, it's the trolls (the right culprit) who have to be penalized for their behaviors but if you want to do that by displaying your 'e-braveness' and if that is not-being-cowardice for you, oh well, all the best but you are risking your shoes by walking on their tracks. why do you want to harm your classy shoes? i, personally, have lots of respect for my shoes. :P

and please don't get me wrong. i am not saying the one who are picked on by the trolls should leave the site. now that would be the real 'cowardice' of a poster IMHO, wouldn't it be? what i was trying to say is, if you don't know how to handle trolls, if you cannot let go of their e-attacks, perhaps you may want to find a safer place no?

chhoto garun bhanda bhanda lamo bhayechha, sorry about that.

samsara bro,
for you, hurling them trolls may be the only way of dealing. perhaps, you don't have thick skin for resistance. . i choose to remain quiet and perhaps that's why i am LooTeKuKuR.

sn di,
muaaaaaaaaaaaaah :D

Loote said: "i choose to remain quiet and perhaps that's why i am LooTeKuKuR"

I'd really hate to use the words here but the "p" word comes to mind here for guys who run away from even the tiniest confrontation...An attack on you and you'd remain quiet (you'd probably just push aside the troll's comment coming at your family members too then, huh??). Pls that’s total BS in my books. If you can't stand up to idiots coming at you and running away from them is your only primal defense and moving to another forum because of that, then you should start wearing what we men call skirts from tomorrow (not kilts). Also, I'm on sajha 8-10 hours a day viewing all threads when I have the time and I'd say that only a handful of trolls remain and there never in recent memeory was one getting at you (and believe me I've read most of your posts)…So, HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU SAY THE BEST WAY AS FAR AS YOU'VE LEARNT TO GET THEM OFF YOUR BACK IS TO IGNORE THEM?? PLEASE MAN…I'd confront anyone before I run with my tail between my azz.

And yeah, why should I leave this forum for a "safe" place because of a troll?? If this is your mentality, then I pity you being a man, bro. That’s probably why the name "Loote" kukur...BTW, I'm safe anywhere and wherever I may be. If anyone has beef, I'd take it man!! This is just my 2 cents given your reply earlier. I really tried not to come to this thread anymore but on reading you last post I felt that this issue had to be addressed before it totally ate into me.

Thanks Captain and Loote for not tagging me as a TROLL. To those who think of me as a troll, please read all of my posts till date and decide for yourself. I think, in a way I'm like Captain Saab and Samsara who doesn't hesitate to fire back who i think try to bully or insult. Hey, after all this is a public forum. Everybody has the right to voice their opinion. There is always agreement/disagreement between members on certain topics. Isn't that what this forum is all about? If everyone agree with everyone, then I don't think there is any need of this kinda forum.

Lets clarify what torikotyel just said: "Thanks Captain and Loote for not tagging me as a TROLL...There is always agreement/disagreement between members on certain topics. Isn't that what this forum is all about? If everyone agree with everyone, then I don't think there is any need of this kinda forum."

True in that but what about following someone to other thread with the sole intent of confronting someone. Dude, you just came outta the woodwork without a word on the topic but coming straight up at me calling me arrogant when I'd never even read/responded to any of your posts earlier...Then you follow me into other threads posting about me instead of the topic of the thread. IF THAT AIN'T TROLLING, THEN WHAT IS??? DO YOU THINK WE WERE ALL BORN YESTERDAY HERE! Listen, lets not even waste anymore space on sajha and just decide to settle it man-to-man if you think you're not a TROLL?? How about you send me an email ASAP and we settle this without any more further digression on this thread. Find those 2 things we men call Balls between your legs and lets give all these esteemed members here a break from all this BS, will ya?? I'll wait...

PUTTING CAPS ON PEEPS IS NOT FREE SPEECH
PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.
DUN BY A HYPOCRITE.

^^*sarcasm drippin* Woohooo....Real Men!! ^^

Samsara - Ha ha ha ... thanks for your generous comments. I better stop there before this turns out to be a love fest but the sentiment is mutual. BTW, I have no interest in being a moderator and if you can convince San you should be one, I am sure at a minimum I'll have fun watching you in action :)

Loote - All I can say is: somebody please troll and bully this guy !That is without SNDY and the others - ladies and guys(note: correction) - coming to his rescue. No offense, but that type of wishy-washy, spineless approach is precisely what gives rise to such sociopaths on Sajha and other sites. They do it because they can. I'm on the side of people who want to fight such sociapathic miscreants. If everyone stood up against them, there might be some ruffled feathers in the beginning, but I strongly believe it would bring an end to such behaviors. I have seen it happen on other sites and am pretty confident it can happen here too.

Bathroom Coffee-

Oh sure, except free speech comes with responsibility. People who want to avail the benefits of such free speech must also be willing to bear the burden of responsibility that comes with it, if you ask me. Or else be prepared to be held accountable for it. That's all I am asking.

Hope all is well with you.


Brig Ma'am -

Good to hear your thoughts. So you also subscribe to the Loote school of bully management, huh? :) Having known you all these months, my gut tells me you are a much more courageous woman than you want us to believe with that statement you put out. I have a hard time believing that you'd be able to ignore a neighbor who smashed your window and emotionally hurt you and those around you. Not once but a couple of times. If you wouldn't put up with such an act in your everyday life, forgive me for expressing disbelief in your 'ignore' policy here on Sajha.

Sure it might be a question of magnitude of the offense, but I say the underlying principle is still the same: personal responsibility and accountability.Which is what the gist of my argument is.

Loote - As for the length - LOL!! If it bothers you so much, spare yourself the trouble of reading it! I wont be offended if you dont comment. Or offer some constructive criticism of where exactly there might have been repetition. But, jeez, please spare me the whining about it, if that's not too much to ask.

I remain a friend (hope you do to)

:)

Also, Loote, as I think of this, it appears we are venturing into the traditional dove versus hawk divisions we see in other walks of life like politics etc.

Like politics, as long as any one of the approaches creates control and stability, it will prevail. When it fails, the other policy will come up. We'll prolly see a re-play of that here on Sajha. Perhaps even a back and forth of it as we see in other walks of life.

deleted because i thinned for some reason :D

Audrey H-

Not sure who your comments were directed at, from the ^^ it appears it might not have been me, but I want to address the "real men" bit.

I guess for whatever reason, right or wrong, masculinity tends to come up whenever there is talk of conflict. The point I want to make and stress is this principle of personal responsibility, as I see it, transcends gender. I think both men and women should not put up with BS and challenge it whenever they can.

Best wishes.

Deleted due to non-discerning font effect :D

What responsibilty r you talking about Capn' ? he he

THE MOMENT YOU PUT ANY FORM OF RESTRICTION ON ANYTHING = NOT FREEE NO MO.

YEAH I AM WILLING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY TO SAY WHAT I WANT OT SAY. IF PPL HAVE A PROBLEM THEY CAN COME TO ME AND NOT GOTO BIG BROTHER AND BITCH ABOUT IT.

Samsara, I thought it was already settled. I don't think shooting an email is a good idea. I think we both got carried away a lil bit(and you don't have to agree with me on this), that led to previous arguments. Anyways, why not settle it right here and show everybody that we atleast agree on something. What say you?

Samsara says:

An attack on you and you'd remain quiet (you'd probably just push aside the troll's comment coming at your family members too then, huh??). Pls that’s total BS in my books. If you can't stand up to idiots coming at you and running away from them is your only primal defense and moving to another forum because of that, then you should start wearing what we men call skirts from tomorrow (not kilts).

i do reciprocate and so do you (as i have seen you here in this forum) to troll's actions/comments. just because i act as if i am oblivious to what they're saying does not mean i am not counter-attacking. for me that's the way i do, and the best way i know. our ways are different. trust me i know your ways better than my own. i have kinda 'been there done that'. if you dig into some of my old threads, you will see why i am saying this. but over time, i guess i have matured :P, although i have still a long way to go...(we ain't no teens no more, are we? :P)

if you've watched 'rocky balboa', there are some interesting lines which rocky (stallone) says. i tend to follow it not only in sajha but also in real life and so far it's doing me world of good. please try to understand 'this' samsara bro. i find you quite intelligent otherwise. mark my words--it will only help you to take a long stride forward in your life in the easiest possible way.


The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place It will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!


Also, I'm on sajha 8-10 hours a day viewing all threads when I have the time and I'd say that only a handful of trolls remain and there never in recent memeory was one getting at you (and believe me I've read most of your posts)…So, HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU SAY THE BEST WAY AS FAR AS YOU'VE LEARNT TO GET THEM OFF YOUR BACK IS TO IGNORE THEM?? PLEASE MAN…I'd confront anyone before I run with my tail between my azz.

you haven't seen me getting attacked by trolls that often because by now, most of them know that i wear a heavy armor

but on a more serious note, not a long time ago, there was this guy trying to irritate me. he only managed to get irritated by himself in the end. i believe, most of these folks are not even serious...they just want to have some fun poking on others. i don't mind them as long as they are serious where they are needed to be.

Torikophul,
bro, i haven't tagged you as anything! or have i? sorry if i managed to create any confusions but i was pointing at the general erratic nature in a person as a troll. i was pointing at the behavior not the person. you may have acted as a troll in some and so have i. whereas i might have seen you as a sensible poster in many other threads/posts. don't be hard on yourself.

Cappy,ole chap....twas surely not meant for you ! duh!

I am just so very amazed at "Let's be real men about this" attitude. :S
And also i have to confess, I have not read most of the posts in this page..it tends to be somewhat repetitiveafter a while.the whole bit about BS -ing is well...yawn inducing.It sure is great to have one's blood racing (no puns inteded here) and having word-fights .But as day comes after n ight, surely there will be some sore losers who get a tad too personal .And boy...do their "mardangi" come out in full force then@@#% ha !

I

"YEAH I AM WILLING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY TO SAY WHAT I WANT OT SAY. IF PPL HAVE A PROBLEM THEY CAN COME TO ME AND NOT GOTO BIG BROTHER AND BITCH ABOUT IT."

BC - My sentiments exactly.I am that way too as I am sure many others are as well.

BUT

What about the guy (or girl ) who doesn't have the intellectual, mental and emotional tools that you have to handle bullies because they did not receive the same type of education as you or come from the same economic background?

I say give them the tools to develop that same confidence that you exude. Teaching them how to fight bullies is one example of empowering them. By no means is it the only one but it's within our power here to do it.So why not I ask?

capty says:
All I can say is: somebody please troll and bully this guy

i say:
bring them on.

but seriously, i thought you would agree more with my school of thoughts on "how to deal with trolls". alas!

koi baat nahi, we are still very good friends. cheers!

I agree with loote's last post. I liked that movie and liked those lines. Following story may also be relevant here:

One day, the Buddha was sitting upon some steps meditating when a group of boys came by and began insulting and taunting him, attempting to make him angry. After some time, one of the boys observed that the insults were having no affect upon the Buddha, who remained sitting quietly on the steps. The boy finally asked the Buddha how he could just sit there and not become enraged at the terrible treatment he was receiving. The Buddha answered the question with a question of his own, saying, “If someone offers you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong?”

The boy thought for a moment and then replied, “Why, it continues to belong to the one offering the gift.”

The Buddha then told him, “Likewise, I am refusing to accept your insults, therefore they remain with you.”